HaideĂľi sĂŁ ne descoperim istoria pierdutĂŁ

domnule mihai vâlcu, în ultimul timp nu am mai putut intra pe forum pentru că am fost foarte ocupată , dar nu am uitat faptul că trebuie să vă explic câte ceva despre titulatura domnitorilor români...
problema pe care ați ridicat-o dumneavoastră se referea în primul rând la particula *io* . vă spuneam data trecută că aceasta atestă în mod clar faptul că țările române făceau parte din commonwealthul bizantin. formula aceasta a fost găsită de un istoric pe nume g.ostrogorsky pentru a desemna statele care erau sub influența culturii bizantine.
toți împărații bizantini (și după modelul lor și cei al statelor care vor prelua cultura bizantină) își legitimau opținerea titului imperial prin voința lui dumnezeu . aceasta presupunea că ei nu au primit coroana de la nicio putere din afara teritoriului pe care îl conduceau sau de la boierii locali ci direct de la autoritatea supremă a cărei voință nu mai putea fi contestată. domnind ei îndeplineau voința lui dumnezeu și oricine ar fi încercat să le uzurpe tronul sau nu li s-ar fi supus în general ar fi săvârșit un act împotriva lui dumnezeu însuși.după acest model își vor legitima și domnitorii români tronul. ei se află la domnie doar prin voința lui dumnezeu. asta însemna în mod clar o afirmare a suveranității statelor în plan extern (coroana nu era primită de la împăratul bizantin și cu atât mai puțin de la regele ungar ) și o confimare a autorității în plan intern (se limitau astfel tendințele separatiste ale diverșilor boieri care puteau deveni foarte puternici și puteau duce la dezintegrarea statului nou format ).
pentru a arăta că domnia este primită direct de la dumnezeu domnitorii își începeau titulatura cu particula *io* care este prescurtatarea numelui *ioan* sau *Iοαννεσ* în greacă.numele acesta s-ar traduce *unsul lui dumnezeu * , *alesul lui dumnezeu* sau , în cazul de față *cel ales de dumnezeu pentru a domni*.

despre spiritualitatea dacilor prea multe surse nu sunt. totuși , dintre cele câteva pe care le avem cea mai importantă dintre ele este o pagină din cartea a 4-a a lui herodot despre care am mai vorbit pe acest topic.
mai sunt alte câteva , dar în esență spun cam același lucruri pe care le spune și herodot.
ceea ce aș putea totuși să vă garantez este faptul că nu exista nicio școală de spirtualitate dacică și nicio particulă *io* la geto-daci (s-ar fi descoperit măcar o inscripție )


numai bine!

Curentul asta dacist exacerbat a aparut ca o reactie la curentul panslavist, promovat de rusi, ptr a putea sa iasa la Mediterana prin ocupare de teritorii. A fost un fel de maxim al slavismului in 1964. Au fost astimparati de regimul ceausist cu dacismul dus la extrem. Adevarul cu dacismul, e bineinteles undeva mai jos. Dacii, tracii au fost o civilizatie aparuta, ca afirmare, in urma diferendelor cu scitii sau celti (nu mai stiu exact), care traiau in acelasi areal cu dacii si tracii. Ajunsesera la asemenea relatii belicoase ca dacii au fost f usor uniti de Buerebista, au eliminat aceste triburi si au devenit o putere asemanatoare Romei. Dar a decazut odata cu moartea regelui lor.
Oricum civilizatia daca a supravietuit datorita spiritualitatii ei si nu a personalitatilor. Din Carpati a pornit si eroul civilizator Rama, care a trecut cu triburile lui prin tot orientul mijlociu, si a aterizat la poalele Himalayei. In ramayana e scrisa povestea. Civilizatia daca nu e numai o vorba in vint, dupa multe date care se cam leaga, e un leagan al civilizatiilor, si nu un produs al altora.
Rasa ariana, se stie prin orient, ca sint acesti urmasi ai lui Rama. Englezii au spus prima data de faptul ca arienii sint din Carpati.
Si ca o completare, Alexandru Macedon era trac, Traian era trac, Cel care a condus rascoala acelor gladiatori romani era trac, si vroia doar sa se intoarca in tara lui, sa traiasca liber. Romanii antici nu l-au lasat. Cam asta e diferenta intre spiritualitatea traco-geto-dacilor si a fostilor romani.
Unele din caracteristicile dacilor era si este buna vecinatate, spiritul de libertate (implicind si a-i lasa si pe altii sa fie liberi), si de a nu se duce peste altii sa-i ocupe si sa le impuna regulile lor (ale dacilor).

Cei din regiunea Deva-Hunedoara isi spun si acum daci.

Cei ce le interzic altora accesul la anumite aspecte ale vietii.....sint satui de acel aspect.

" Caragaci - Un sat romanesc din Buceag " , autor Petru Ujeuca . Autorul este un refugiat din acest tinut romanesc astazi uitat .
" Tribalia Sacra " , autor Ion Di La Vidin . Autorul a fost un luptator pentru emanciparea romanilor bastinasi pe teritoriul care astazi este administrat de Bulgaria .

Strabon- Peuce-Alaric


[[Image:Roman Empire 125.svg|thumb|right|300px|Map of the Roman empire and contemporary indigenous Europe in Ad 125, showing the location of the '''Bastarnae''', divided into two groups. The smaller group, inhabiting the delta of the Danube and its northern environs, was known as the '''Peucini'''.]]
The '''Bastarnae''' or '''Basternae''' were an ancient tribal group of probably mixed [[Celts|Celtic]] and [[Germanic peoples|Germanic]] origin which, between not later than 200 BC and until at least 300 AD, inhabited the region between the eastern [[Carpathian]] mountains and the [[Dnieper]] river (corresponding to the modern [[Republic of Moldova]] and western part of southern [[Ukraine]]). A branch of the Bastarnae, called the Peucini by Greco-Roman writers, occupied the region north of the [[Danube]] river delta.

Although possibly Celtic-speaking in 179 BC, the Bastarnae probably were Germanic in language and culture during the 1st century AD, but appear to have become assimilated by their neighbouring [[Sarmatians]] by the 3rd century. Like the latter, they were probably semi-nomadic. It has not yet been possible to identify specific Bastarnae archaeological sites.

The Peucini branch of the Bastarnae first came into conflict with the Romans in the 1st century BC, when they resisted, ultimately unsuccessfully, Roman expansion into [[Moesia]], the region on the southern bank of the Danube. Although probably on friendly terms with the Romans in the early 1st century, there is little evidence of the Peucini until ca. 180, when they are recorded as participating in an invasion of Roman territory in alliance with Sarmatian and Dacian elements. In the mid 3rd century, the Bastarnae were part of a Gothic-led grand coalition of lower Danube tribes which inflicted immense damage on the Balkan provinces of the Roman empire in a series of massive invasions. Large numbers of Bastarnae were resettled within the empire in the late 3rd century.

== Name etymology ==
The origin of the tribal name is uncertain. One possible derivation is from the [[proto-Germanic]] word ''*bastjan'' (from [[Proto-Indo-European language|Proto-Indo-European]] root word *''bhas'') means "binding" or "tie".Köbler *''bhas'' In this case, ''Bastarnae'' may have had the original meaning of an alliance or ''bund'' of tribes. It is possible that the Roman term ''[[basterna]]'', denoting a type of wagon or litter, is derived from the name of this tribe, which was known, like many Germanic tribes, to travel with a wagon-train for their families.Dio LI.24.4 It has also been speculated that the name Bastarnae is connected with the English word ''bastard'', meaning "illegitimate son". But there is no hard evidence of such a connection.

== Ethno-linguistic affiliation ==
[[Livy]], the Roman historian, writing in ca. 10 AD, may imply that the Bastarnae were of Celtic origin. Relating events of ca. 180 BC, he describes them then as "similar in language and customs" to the [[Scordisci]], a tribe of [[Illyria]] described as Celtic by [[Strabo]] (although he adds that they had mingled with Illyrians and Thracians).Strabo VII.5.2 Livy also names their king, Cotto.Livy XL.58 This name is possibly of Celtic derivation (cf. [[Cottius]], king of the Alpine [[Salassi]] tribe and friend of [[Augustus]], after whom were named the [[Alpes Cottiae]] Roman province and the [[Cotini]] Celtic tribe of the northern Carpathians. Both probably derived from ''cotto-'' = "old" or "crooked").Faliyeyev (2007) entries 3806, 3890 It is possible that the Bastarnae were originally a mixed Celto-Germanic group.Todd (2004) 22-3 If so, they may have originally comprised residual Celtic elements in central eastern Europe such as the Cotini, who formed a Celtic enclave in the Germanic-speaking zone and are described by Tacitus as iron-ore miners working as tributaries of the powerful [[Quadi]] Germanic people.Tacitus G.43. The Romans often used "German" as a geographical rather than ethnic classification.See "Atlas of Ancient History", p.50 by [[Colin McEvedy]] for a historiographic discussion of this point.

In any case, other Greco-Roman writers of the 1st century AD are unanimous that the Bastarnae were, in their own time, Germanic in language and culture. The Greek geographer [[Strabo]], writing ca. 5-20 AD, says the Bastarnae are "of Germanic stock", although he includes the non-Germanic Roxolani, a [[Sarmatian]] tribe, among the sub-tribes of the Bastarnae (probably in error).Strabo VII.3.17 The Roman geographer [[Pliny the Elder]] (ca. 77 AD), refers to "Bastarnae and other Germans".Pliny NH IV.81 The Roman historian [[Tacitus]] (ca. 100 AD), states: "The Peucini, however, who are sometimes called Bastarnae, are like Germans in their language, way of life and types of dwelling and live in similar squalor and indolence...[However] mixed marriages are giving them to some extent the vile appearance of the Sarmatians."Tacitus G.46

In the 3rd century, however, the Greek historian [[Dio Cassius]] states that the "Bastarnae are properly classed as Scythians" and "members of the Scythian race".Dio LI.23.3, 24.2 Likewise, the 6th century historian [[Zosimus]], reporting events around AD 280, refers to "the Bastarnae, a Scythian people".Zosimus I.34 It is possible that the miscegenation mentioned by Tacitus had, by the 3rd century, resulted in the Bastarnae becoming assimilated by the Sarmatians, perhaps adopting their tongue (which belonged to the [[Iranian people|Iranic]] group of Indo-European languages) and/or Sarmatian customs. On the other hand, the Bastarnae maintained a separate name-identity into the late 3rd century AD, possibly implying retention of their Germanic cultural heritage, distinctive in the lower Danube, until the arrival of the Goths.cf. Historia Augusta ''Probus'' 18

== Territory ==
[[Image:Denube Delta Bank.JPG|thumb|right|A view of the Danube delta, showing the kind of swampy terrain originally inhabited by the Peucini branch of the Bastarnae.]]
It is generally assumed by scholars that the Bastarnae's original home was around the [[Vistula]] river (central Poland) and that they migrated south-eastwards to the Black Sea region around 200 BC (as, 400 years later, did the [[Goth]]ic ''ethnos'').Todd (2004) 23

Strabo describes the Bastarnae territory vaguely as "between the ''Ister'' (river Danube) and the ''Borysthenes'' (river Dnieper)". He identifies three sub-tribes of the Bastarnae: the Atmoni, Sidoni and Peucini. The latter derived their name from [[Peuce]], a large island in the Danube delta which they had colonised.Strabo VII.3.17 {{hcref|a|[[Peuce Island]]}} The 2nd century geographer Ptolemy states that the Carpiani or [[Carpi (Dacian tribe)|Carpi]] (believed to have occupied [[Moldavia]]) separated the Peucini from the other Bastarnae "above Dacia".Ptolemy III.5.9 The consensus among modern scholars is that the Bastarnae were, in the 2nd century, divided into two main groups. The larger group inhabited the north-eastern slopes of the Carpathians and the area between the [[Prut]] and [[Dnieper]] rivers (Moldova Republic/Western Ukraine), while a separate smaller group (the Peucini) dwelt in and North of the Danube delta region. Only the Peucini, therefore, were situated on the extreme northern border of the Roman province of [[Moesia Inferior]], which ran along the southernmost branch of the Danube delta.Barrington Plate 22

== Material culture ==
[[Image:Origins 200 AD.png|thumb|right|Map showing the extent of the [[Chernyakhov]] culture (in orange) in the 3rd century, and the peoples involved, including the Bastarnae.]]
It is uncertain whether the Bastarnae were [[sedentary]] or [[nomadic]] (or semi-nomadic). Tacitus' statement that they were "German in their way of life and types of dwelling" implies a sedentary bias, but their close relations with the Sarmatians, who were nomadic, may indicate a more nomadic lifestyle, as does the wide geographical range of their attested inhabitation.Todd (2004) 23

It has not to date been possible to identify individual archaeological sites as belonging to the Bastarnae, because no convincing typology of Bastarnae artefacts exists. It has been suggested that the Bastarnae are an especially good match, in location and in time, for the [[Zarubintsy culture]], despite the fact that it was centred somewhat to the North of the main area of Bastarnae residence. This culture, which flourished in the upper Dnieper and [[Pripyat]] rivers between ca. 300 BC and AD 200, was sedentary, based on agriculture and the rearing of livestock. Its cultural artefacts show strong influences from the western [[steppe]] (i.e. Sarmatian influence) and, in a later phase, from the Roman Danubian provinces. But the Zarubintsy culture has also been "claimed" for the [[Venedi]] tribe, who are regarded by many scholars as proto-Slavic - although even this is uncertain.Todd (2004) 24 In reality, it is not possible, on the current state of knowledge, to ascribe the Zarubintsy culture to any individual ethno-linguistic group. It is likely that Zarubintsy represents a wide range of peoples in the Poland- W. Ukraine region (possibly including the Bastarnae).Todd (2004) 23-4

Starting in about 200 AD, the [[Chernyakhov]] culture became established in the W. Ukraine/Moldova region inhabited by the Bastarnae. The culture is characterised by a high degree of sophistication in the production of metal and ceramic artefacts, as well as of uniformity over a vast area. Although this culture has conventionally been identified with the migration of the [[Goth]]ic ''ethnos'' into the region from the Northwest, Todd argues that its most important origin is Scytho-Sarmatian. Although the Goths certainly contributed to it, so probably did other peoples of the region such as the Dacians, [[Early Slavs|proto-Slavs]], [[Carpi]], and possibly the Bastarnae.Todd (2004) 26

== Conflict with Rome ==
=== Roman republican era (to 30 BC)===
==== Allies of Philip of Macedon (179-8 BC) ====
[[File:Illyricum.jpg|thumb|right|Map showing the lower Danube provinces of the Roman empire, with the location of Illyrian and Thracian tribes]]
[[File:Philip V of Macedon BM.jpg|thumb|right|Silver [[tetradrachm]] of Philip V of Macedon. [[British Museum]], London ]]

The Bastarnae first appear in the historical record in 179 BC, when they crossed the Danube in massive force (probably ca. 60,000 men, both cavalry and infantry, plus a wagon-train of accompanying women and children). They did so at the invitation of their long-time ally, king [[Philip V of Macedon]], a direct descendant of [[Antigonus]], one of the [[Diadochi]], the generals of [[Alexander the Great]] who had shared out his empire after his death in 323 BC. The Macedonian king had suffered a disastrous defeat at the hands of the Romans in the [[Second Macedonian War]] (200-197 BC), which had reduced him from a powerful [[Hellenistic]] monarch to the status of a petty client-king with a much-reduced territory and a tiny army.{{hcref|b|Peace terms after 2nd Macedonian War}} After nearly 20 years of slavish adherence to the Roman Senate's dictats, Philip had been goaded beyond endurance by the incessant and devastating raiding of the [[Dardani]], a warlike Thraco-IllyrianA Mocsy. Pannonia and Upper Moesia tribe on his northern border, which his treaty-limited army was too small to counter effectively. Counting on the Bastarnae, with whom he had forged friendly relations in earlier times, he plotted a strategy to deal with the Dardani and then to regain his lost territories in Greece and his political independence. First, he would unleash the Bastarnae against the Dardani. After the latter had been crushed, Philip planned to settle Bastarnae families in Dardania (southern [[Kosovo]]/[[Skopje]] region), to ensure that the region was permanently subdued. In a second phase, Philip aimed to launch the Bastarnae on an invasion of Italy via the Adriatic coast. Although he knew that the Bastarnae were hardly likely to achieve the same success as [[Hannibal]] some 40 years earlier, Philip hoped that the Romans would be distracted long enough to allow him to reoccupy his former possessions in Greece.Livy XL.57

But Philip, now 60 years of age, died before the Bastarnae could arrive. The Bastarnae host was still ''en route'' through Thrace, where it became embroiled in hostilities with the locals, who were unable (or unwilling) to provide them with sufficient food at affordable prices as they marched through. Probably in the vicinity of [[Philippopolis]] (modern Plovdiv, Bulgaria), the Bastarnae broke out of their marching columns and pillaged the land far and wide. The terrified local Thracians took refuge with their families and animal herds on the slopes of ''Mons Donuca'', the highest mountain in Thrace ([[Musala|Mt. Musala]], Rila Mts., Bulgaria). A large force of Bastarnae chased them up the mountain, but were driven back and scattered by a massive hailstorm. Then the Thracians ambushed them, turning their descent into a panic-stricken rout. Back at their [[laager|wagon-laager]] in the plain, around half the demoralised Bastarnae decided to return home, leaving ca. 30,000 to press on to Macedonia.Livy XL.58

Philip's son and successor [[Perseus of Macedon|Perseus]], while protesting his loyalty to Rome, deployed his Bastarnae guests in winter quarters in a valley in Dardania, presumably as a prelude to a campaign against the Dardani the following summer. But in the depths of winter their camp was attacked by the Dardani. The Bastarnae easily beat off the attackers, chased them back to their chief town, and besieged them. But they were surprised in the rear by a second force of Dardani which had approached their camp stealthily by mountain paths and proceeded to storm and ransack it. Having lost their entire baggage and supplies, the Bastarnae were obliged to withdraw from Dardania and to return home. Most perished as they crossed the frozen Danube on foot, only for the ice to give way.Livy XLI.19 Despite the failure of Philip's Bastarnae strategy, the suspicion aroused by these events in the Roman Senate, which had been warned by the Dardani of the Bastarnae invasion, ensured the demise of Macedonia as an independent state.Livy XLI.23 and XLII.12-4 Rome declared war on Perseus in 171 BC and after the Macedonian army was crushed at the [[Battle of Pydna]] (168 BC), Macedonia was split up into 4 Roman puppet-cantons (167 BC).Livy XLV.19 21 years later, these were in turn abolished and annexed to the [[Roman Republic]] as the [[Macedonia (Roman province)|province of Macedonia]] (146 BC).

==== Allies of Getan high king Burebista (62 BC) ====
[[File:Scythia Minor map.jpg|thumb|right|Map of [[Scythia Minor]] (Dobruja), showing the Greek coastal cities of Histria, Tomis, Callatis and Dionysopolis (Istria, Constanţa, Mangalia and Balchik).]]
[[File:HistriaCoins.jpg|thumb|right|Coin issued by the Greek coastal city of [[Histria (Sinoe)|Histria]] (Sinoe)]]
The Bastarnae first came into direct conflict with Rome as a result of expansion into the lower Danube region by the [[proconsuls]] (governors) of Macedonia in the period 75-72 BC. [[Gaius Scribonius Curio]] (proconsul 75-3 BC) campaigned successfully against the Dardani and the [[Moesi]], becoming the first Roman general to reach the river Danube with his army.Smith's Dictionary: ''Curio'' His successor, [[Marcus Terentius Varro Lucullus|Marcus Licinius Lucullus]] (brother of the famous [[Lucullus|Lucius Lucullus]]), campaigned against the Thracian [[Bessi]] tribe and the Moesi, ravaging the whole of [[Moesia]], the region between the Haemus ([[Balkan]]) mountain range and the Danube. In 72 BC, his troops occupied the Greek coastal cities of [[Scythia Minor]] (modern [[Dobruja]] region, Romania/Bulgaria),{{hcref|c|Greek cities}} which had sided with Rome's [[Hellenistic]] arch-enemy, king [[Mithridates VI]] of [[Pontus]], in the [[Third Mithridatic War]] (73-63 BC).Smith's Dictionary: ''Lucullus''

The presence of Roman forces in the Danube delta was seen as a major threat by all the neighbouring transdanubian peoples: the Peucini Bastarnae, the Sarmatians and, most importantly, by [[Burebista]] (ruled 82-44 BC), king of the [[Getae]]. The Getae occupied the region today called [[Wallachia]] as well as Scythia Minor and were either a [[Dacian language|Dacian]]- or [[Thracian language|Thracian]]- speaking people.{{hcref|d|Language of Getae}} Burebista had unified the Getan tribes into a single kingdom, for which the Greek cities were vital trade outlets. In addition, he had established his hegemony over neighbouring Sarmatian and Bastarnae tribes. At its peak, the Getan kingdom reportedly was able to muster 200,000 warriors. Burebista led his transdanubian coalition in a struggle against Roman encroachment, conducting many raids against Roman allies in Moesia and Thrace, penetrating as far as Macedonia and Illyria.Strabo VII.3.11-12

The coalition's main chance came in 62 BC, when the Greek cities rebelled against Roman rule. In 61 BC, the notoriously oppressive and militarily incompetent proconsul of Macedonia, [[Gaius Antonius Hybrida|Gaius Antonius]], nicknamed ''Hybrida'' ("The Monster", an uncle of the famous [[Mark Antony]]) led an army against the Greek cities. As his army approached [[Histria (Sinoe)]], Antonius detached his entire mounted force from the marching column and led it away on a lengthy excursion, leaving his infantry without cavalry cover, a tactic he had already used with disastrous results against the Dardani.Dio XXXVIII.10.2 Dio implies that he did so out of cowardice, in order to avoid the imminent clash with the opposition. But it is more likely that he was pursuing a large enemy cavalry force, which was possibly acting as a decoy. A Bastarnae host, which had crossed the Danube to assist the Histrians, promptly engaged, surrounded and massacred the Roman infantry, capturing several of their ''[[vexillum|vexilla]]'' (military standards).Dio XXXVIII.10.3 and LI.26.5 This battle resulted in the collapse of the Roman position on the lower Danube. Burebista annexed the Greek cities (55-48 BC).Crişan (1978) 118 At the same time, the subjugated "allied" tribes of Moesia and Thrace evidently repudiated their treaties with Rome, as they had to be re-conquered by Augustus in 29-8 BC (see below).

For 44 BC, Roman [[dictator perpetuus|dictator-for-life]] [[Julius Caesar]] planned to lead a major campaign to deal with Burebista and his allies once and for all, but he was assassinated before it could start.Strabo VII.3.5 However, the campaign was made redundant by Burebista's overthrow and death in the same year, after which his Getan empire fragmented into 4, later 5 independent petty kingdoms. These were militarily far weaker, as Strabo assessed their combined military potential at just 40,000 armed men, and were often involved in internecine warfare.Strabo VII.3.11Dio LI.26.1 The Geto-Dacians did not again become a threat to Roman hegemony in the lower Danube until the rise of [[Decebal]] 130 years later (86 AD).

=== Augustan era (30 BC - 14 AD) ===
[[File:Statue-Augustus.jpg|thumb|right|Statue of [[Augustus]] in the garb of Roman ''[[imperator]]'' (military supreme commander). By the end of his sole rule (14 AD), Augustus had expanded the empire to the line of the [[Danube]] river, which was to remain its central/eastern European border for its entire history (except for the occupation of [[Dacia]] 105-275). [[Musei Vaticani]], Rome ]]

Once he had established himself as sole ruler of the Roman state in 30 BC, Caesar's grand-nephew and adopted son [[Augustus]] inaugurated a strategy of advancing the empire's southeastern European border to the line of the Danube from the [[Alps]], the [[Dinaric Alps]] and Macedonia. The primary objective was to increase strategic depth between the border and Italy and also to provide a major fluvial supply-route between the Roman armies in the region.''Res Gestae'' 30 On the lower Danube, which was given priority over the upper Danube, this required the annexation of Moesia and Thrace; the latter, however, was spared annexation as it was in the hands of a friendly king. {{hcref|e|Roman annexation of Thrace}} The Romans' target were thus the tribes which inhabited Moesia, namely (from West to East) the [[Triballi]], Moesi and those Getae who dwelt South of the Danube. The Bastarnae were also a target because they had recently subjugated the Triballi, whose territory lay on the southern bank of the Danube between the tributary rivers ''Ubus'' ([[Vit]]) and ''Ciabrus'' ([[Tsibritsa]]), with their chief town at [[Oescus]] (Gigen, Bulgaria).Ptolemy In addition, Augustus wanted to avenge the defeat of C. Antonius 32 years before and to recover the lost standards. These were held in a powerful fortress called [[Genucla]] (Isaccea, near modern Tulcea, Rom., in the Danube delta region), controlled by [[Zyraxes]], the local Getan petty king.Dio LI.26.5 The man selected for the task was [[Marcus Licinius Crassus Dives (consul 30 BC)|Marcus Licinius Crassus]], grandson of [[Marcus Licinius Crassus|Crassus]] the [[triumvir]] and an experienced general at 33 years of age, who was appointed proconsul of Macedonia in 29 BC.Dio LI.23.2

The Bastarnae provided the ''casus belli'' by crossing the Haemus and attacking the [[Dentheletae]], a Thracian tribe who were Roman allies. Crassus marched to the Dentheletae's assistance, but the Bastarnae host hastily withdrew over the Haemus at his approach. Crassus followed them closely into Moesia but they would not be drawn into battle, withdrawing beyond the Tsibritsa.Dio LI.23.5 Crassus now turned his attention to the Moesi, his prime target. After a successful campaign which resulted in the submission of a substantial section of the Moesi, Crassus again sought out the Bastarnae. Discovering their location from some peace envoys they had sent to him, he lured them into battle near the Tsibritsa by a stratagem. Hiding his main body of troops in a wood, he stationed as bait a smaller vanguard in open ground before the wood. As expected, the Bastarnae attacked the vanguard in force, only to find themselves entangled in the full-scale pitched battle with the Romans that they had tried to avoid. The Bastarnae tried to retreat into the forest but were hampered by the wagon-train carrying their women and children, as these could not move through the trees. Trapped into fighting to save their families, the Bastarnae were routed. Crassus personally killed their king, Deldo, in combat, a feat which qualified him for Rome's highest military honour, ''[[spolia opima]]'', but Augustus refused to award it on a technicality.{{hcref|f|spolia opima}} Thousands of fleeing Bastarnae perished, many asphyxiated in nearby woods by encircling fires set by the Romans, others drowned trying to swim across the Danube. Nevertheless, a substantial force did escape over the river and dug themselves into a powerful hillfort. Crassus laid siege to fort, but had to enlist the assistance of [[Rholes]], the Getan petty king who ruled on the opposite bank, to dislodge them, for which service Rholes was granted the title of ''socius et amicus populi Romani'' ("ally and friend of the Roman people").Dio LI.24

The following year (28 BC), Crassus marched on Genucla. Petty king Zyraxes escaped with his treasure and fled over the Danube into Scythia to seek aid from the Bastarnae and Sarmatians.Dio LI.26.6 But before he was able to bring reinforcements, Genucla fell to a combined land and fluvial assault by the Romans.Dio LI.26.5 The strategic result of Crassus' campaigns was the permanent annexation of Moesia by Rome.

=== Roman imperial era (14 - 180) ===
The ''[[Res Gestae Divi Augusti]]'' ("Acts of the divine Augustus"), a self-congratulatory inscription commissioned by Augustus to list his achievements, states that he received an embassy from the Bastarnae seeking a treaty of friendship.Res Gestae Aug. 31 These would most likely have been the Peucini, who bordered on the empire. Such a treaty was seemingly remarkably effective, as the Bastarnae disappear, save for a single passing mention in Tacitus, from the Roman chronicles until ca. 175 AD, some 160 years after Augustus' inscription was carved.Tacitus A.II.65 But the literary evidence for the history of this period is so thin that it cannot be excluded that the Bastarnae clashed with Rome during it.{{hcref|g|Historical evidence for early empire}} Most notably, it would be surprising if the Bastarnae had no involvement in the [[Dacian Wars]] of [[Domitian]] (86-8) and [[Trajan]] (101-2 and 105-6), since these took place in the lower Danube region and it is known that both sides were supported by neighbouring indigenous tribes. In the late 2nd century, the ''Historia Augusta'' mentions that in the rule of [[Marcus Aurelius]] (161-80), an alliance of lower Danube tribes including the Bastarnae, the Sarmatian Roxolani and the Dacian [[Costoboci]] took advantage of the emperor's difficulties on the upper Danube (the [[Marcomannic Wars]]) to invade Roman territory.Historia Augusta ''Marcus Aurelius'' II.22

=== 3rd century ===
During the late 2nd century, the main ethnic change in the northern Black sea region was the immigration, from the Vistula valley in the North, of the [[Goths]] and accompanying Germanic tribes such as the [[Taifali]] and the [[Hasdingi]], a branch of the [[Vandal]] people. This migration was part of a series of major population movements in the European ''barbaricum'' (the Roman term for regions outside their empire). The Goths appear to have established a loose political hegemony over the existing tribes in the region, or at least to have played the leading role in a series of major invasions of the empire launched by a grand coalition of lower Danubian tribes from ca. 238 onwards. The participation of the Bastarnae in these is likely but largely unspecified, due to Zosimus' and other chroniclers' tendency to lump all these tribes under the general term "Scythians" - meaning all the inhabitants of Scythia, rather than the specific people called the Scythians.Wolfram (1988) 45 Thus, in 250-1, the Bastarnae were probably involved in the Gothic and Sarmatian invasions which culminated in the Roman defeat at the [[Battle of Abrittus]] and the slaying of the emperor [[Decius]] (251). This disaster was the start of the [[Third Century Crisis]], a period of military and economic collapse which came close to destroying the empire. At this critical moment, the Roman army was crippled by the outbreak of a second smallpox pandemic, the [[plague of Cyprian]] (251-70). The effects are described by Zosimus as even worse than the earlier [[Antonine Plague|Antonine plague]] (166-80), which probably killed 15-30% of the empire's inhabitants.Zosimus I.16, 21

Taking advantage of Roman military disarray, a vast number of barbarian peoples overran much of the empire. The Sarmato-Gothic alliance of the lower Danube carried out major invasions of the Balkans region in 252, and in the periods 253-8 and 260-8.Zosimus I.16, 20, 21 The Peucini Bastarnae are specifically mentioned in the 267/8 invasion, when the coalition built a fleet in the estuary of the river ''Tyras'' ([[Dnieper]]). The Peucini Bastarnae would have been critical to this venture since, as coastal and delta dwellers, they would have had seafaring experience that the nomadic Sarmatians and Goths lacked. The barbarians sailed along the [[Black Sea]] coast to Tomis in Moesia Inferior, which they tried to take by assault without success. They then attacked the provincial capital [[Marcianopolis]] (Devnya, Bulg.), also in vain. Sailing on through the [[Bosporus]], the expedition laid siege to [[Thessalonica]] in northern Greece. Driven off by Roman forces, the coalition host moved overland into Thracia, where finally it was crushed by emperor [[Claudius II]] (r. 268-70) at [[Battle of Naissus|Naissus]] (269).Zosimus I.22-3

== Ultimate fate ==
Claudius II was the first of a sequence of military emperors (the so-called "[[Illyrian emperors]]" from their main ethnic origin) who restored order in the empire in the late 3rd century. These emperors followed a policy of large-scale resettlement within the empire of defeated barbarian tribes, granting them land in return for an obligation of military service much heavier than the usual conscription quota. The policy had the triple benefit, from the Roman point of view, of weakening the hostile tribe, repopulating the plague-ravaged frontier provinces (bringing their abandoned fields back into cultivation) and providing a pool of first-rate recruits for the army. But it could also be popular with the barbarian prisoners, who were often delighted by the prospect of a land grant within the empire. In the 4th century, such communities were known as ''[[laeti]]''.Jones (1964) 620 The emperor [[Probus]] (r. 276-82) is recorded as resettling 100,000 Bastarnae in Moesia, in addition to other peoples (Goths, Gepids and Vandals). The Bastarnae are reported to have honoured their oath of allegiance to the emperor, while the other resettled peoples mutinied while Probus was distracted by usurpation attempts and ravaged the Danubian provinces far and wide.Historia Augusta ''Probus'' 18Zosimus I.34 A further massive transfer of Bastarnae was carried out by emperor [[Diocletian]] (ruled 284-305) after he and his colleague [[Galerius]] defeated a coalition of Bastarnae and [[Carpi (Dacian tribe)|Carpi]] in 299.Eutropius IX.25. Such numbers may have amounted to a substantial proportion, if not all, of the Peucini Bastarnae: [[Aurelius Victor|Victor]] claims that the Carpi resettled in Pannonia by Diocletian at the same time, together with those previously transferred by [[Aurelian]], amounted to the entire Carpi tribe.Victor 39.43

The remaining Bastarnae of the Ukraine disappear into obscurity in the late empire. Neither of the main ancient sources for this period, [[Ammianus Marcellinus]] and [[Zosimus]], mention the Bastarnae in their accounts of the 4th century, possibly implying the loss of their separate identity, presumably subsumed into the neighbouring Sarmatians or Goths. If the Bastarnae remained an identifiable group, it is highly likely that they participated in the vast Gothic-led migration, driven by [[Hun]]nic pressure, that was admitted into Moesia by emperor [[Valens]] in 376 and eventually defeated and killed Valens at [[Battle of Adrianople|Adrianople]] in 378. Zosimus consistently refers to the migrants as "Scythians" (unlike Ammianus, who refers to them as "Goths"), specifically stating at one point that, in addition, "Goths, Taifali and other tribes" were involved.Zosimus IV.104-7; 107

However, after a gap of 150 years, there is a final mention of Bastarnae in the mid 5th century. In 451, the [[Hun]]nic leader [[Attila]] invaded Gaul with a large army which was ultimately routed at the [[Battle of Chalons]] by a Roman-led coalition under the general [[Aetius]].Jordanes 38-40 Attila's host, according to [[Jordanes]], included contingents from the "innumerable tribes that had been brought under his sway."Jordanes 38 One such were the Bastarnae, according to the Gallic nobleman [[Sidonius Apollinaris]].Sidonius ''Carmina'' 7.341 But the accuracy of Sidonius' list of Hunnic allies is doubtful, as he also gives the names of two Scythian tribes (the [[Neuri]] and [[Geloni]]) that were last mentioned in [[Ptolemy]]'s ''[[Geographia]]'' some three centuries earlier.Ptolemy III.5 According to E.A. Thompson, it is likely that Sidonius, whose purpose was to write a [[panegyric]] and not a history, simply added some spurious names to his list, including the Bastarnae. On the other hand, Thompson does accept that some peoples on the list are plausible e.g. [[Burgundians]], [[Sciri]] and [[Franks]].Thompson (1996) 149

== Notes ==
{{cnote|a|'''Peuce island:''' It is not possible to identify the exact location of this feature both because of the imprecision of ancient sources and the fact that the Danube delta configuration has changed greatly since ancient times, as well as expanding into the sea by ca. 20km. Peuce (from the classical Greek word for "pine") was also the name of a town, most likely on the island. Strabo states the the Danube had 7 mouths, the southernmost of which was known as the ''Hieron Stoma'' or "Sacred Mouth". Peuce town lay 120 ''stadia'' (ca. 22km) upriver from the "Sacred Mouth".Strabo VII.3.15 In other words, Peuce island was not a true island, but delta land delimited by river branches. Strabo's directions, allowing for the advance of the coastline, would place Peuce town near today's [[Mahmudia]] (Rom.), if the course of the southernmost branch of the Danube (called the Braţul Sfântu Gheorghe today) has not changed since ancient times.Times Atlas of the World Plate 79}}
{{cnote|b|'''Peace terms after 2nd Macedonian War:''' The terms imposed on Philip V of Macedon in 196 BC were: (i) loss of all possessions outside [[Macedon]]ia proper (Philip had previously ruled extensive territories in Greece, Thrace and Asia Minor); (ii) standing army limited to 5,000 men and no elephants; (iii) navy limited to 5 warships plus royal galley; (iv) reparation payment of 1,000 [[talent (measurement)|talents]] (ca. 26 tonnes) of silver, equivalent then to ca. 4 tonnes of gold. (In antiquity, silver was far more valuable than today: the gold/silver ratio was only ca. 7, compared to ca. 100 today); (v) prohibited from waging war outside his borders without the Roman Senate's permissionLivy XXXIII.30 }}
{{cnote|c|'''Greek cities of Scythia Minor:''' The main ones were: [[Histria (Sinoe)]], [[Tomis]], [[Callatis]], [[Sozopol|Apollonia]] (Istria, Constanţa, Mangalia, Sozopol)Strabo VII.6.1 }}
{{cnote|d|'''Language of the Getae:''' There is controversy about whether the [[Getae]] were Dacian or Thracian speakers and whether those two languages were similar. Strabo claims that the Getans were [[Thracians]].Strabo VII.3.2. He adds that the [[Dacians]] spoke the same language as the Getae.Strabo VII.3.13 This gave rise to the hypothesis that Thracian and Dacian were essentially the same language (the [[Daco-Thracian]] theory). But the modern linguist [[Vladimir I. Georgiev|Vladimir Georgiev]] disputes that Dacian and Thracian were closely related for various reasons, especially that Dacian and Moesian town names commonly end with the suffix -DAVA, while towns in [[Thrace]] proper generally end in -PARA. According to Georgiev, the language spoken by the Getae should be classified as "Daco-Moesian" and regarded as quite distinct from Thracian.Vladimir Georgiev (Gheorghiev), ''Raporturile dintre limbile dacă, tracă şi frigiană'', "Studii Clasice" Journal, II, 1960, 39-58. Support for the Daco-Moesian theory can be found in Dio, who confirms that the Moesians and Getae on the south bank of the Danube were Dacians.Dio LI.22.6-7 But the scant evidence available for these two extinct languages does not permit any firm conclusions. For the dividing-line between the two placename forms, see the following map (lower map, scroll down): [members.tripod.com/~Groznijat/thrac/thrac_map.html]. }}
{{cnote|e|'''Roman annexation of Thrace:''' Thrace, the country between Macedonia and Moesia, was a Roman satellite-state ruled by a friendly native dynasty, the [[Odrysae]]. It was eventually annexed in 46 AD, by the emperor [[Claudius]] (r. 41-54).Encyclopedia Britannica Online ''Thrace'' }}
{{cnote|f|'''Spolia opima:''' Crassus' feat, as Roman commander, of killing the enemy leader in combat arguably entitled him to the highest honour a Roman soldier could gain: the ''[[spolia opima]]'' (literally: "bountiful spoils", but this term may be a corruption of ''spolia optima'', "supreme spoils"), the right to hang the armour stripped from the enemy leader in the temple of [[Feretrius|Jupiter Feretrius]] in Rome, in emulation of the Founder of Rome [[Romulus]], a privilege granted only twice previously. But Crassus was denied the honour by Augustus on the technicality that he was not commander-in-chief of Roman forces at the time, a position claimed by Augustus himself. Augustus also forbade Crassus to accept the honorary title of ''imperator'' ("supreme commander") from his troops, traditional for victorious generals. Instead, Augustus claimed the title for himself (for the 7th time).Dio LI.25.2CIL VI.873 Finally, although Dio states that Crassus was voted a [[Roman triumph|Triumph]] in Rome by the Senate, there is no evidence in inscriptions of that year (27 BC) that it was actually celebrated. After his return to Rome, Crassus disappears from the record altogether, both epigraphic and literary. This is highly unusual in a relatively well-documented period for a person of such distinction who was still only about 33 years old. His tomb has not been found in the excavated Crassus family mausoleum in Rome. This official "air-brushing from history" may imply punitive [[internal exile]] to a remote location, similar to that inflicted on the contemporary poet, [[Ovid]], who in AD 8, for an unknown offence, was ordered by Augustus to spend the rest of his life in Tomis (Constanţa) on the Black Sea. [[Ronald Syme]] points out the similarity of Crassus' removal from the official record with that of [[Cornelius Gallus]], the contemporary disgraced governor of Egypt, who was recalled by Augustus for assuming inappropriate honours.Syme (1986) 271-2}}
{{cnote|g|'''Historical evidence for the early empire:''' The [[Julio-Claudian]] period and the subsequent [[Year of the Four Emperors|Roman Civil War of 68-9]] (until AD 69) is reasonably well-covered by Tacitus' ''[[Annales]]'' (although substantial parts are missing) and ''[[Historiae]]''. But the loss of Tacitus' narrative for the entire [[Flavian]] period (69-96) and of [[Ammianus Marcellinus]]'s continuation until 353, as well as of most of [[Dio Cassius]]'s History (up to 229), leaves a massive gap in our knowledge of the political history of the early empire, which is only patchily filled by inferior chronicles such as the ''[[Historia Augusta]]'', inscriptions and other evidence}}

== Citations ==
{{reflist}}

==References==
=== Ancient ===
* ''[[Res Gestae Divi Augusti]]'' (ca. 14 AD)
* [[Ammianus Marcellinus]] ''Res Gestae'' (ca. 395 AD)
* [[Dio Cassius]] ''Roman History'' (ca. 230 AD)
* [[Eutropius]] ''Historiae Romanae Breviarium'' (ca. 360)
* Anonymous ''[[Historia Augusta]]'' (ca. 400)
* [[Livy]] ''[[Ab Urbe Condita]]'' (ca. 20 AD)
* [[Jordanes]] ''[[Getica]]'' (ca. 550)
* [[Pliny the Elder]] ''[[Naturalis Historia]]'' (ca. 70 AD)
* [[Ptolemy]] ''[[Geographia]]'' (ca. 140)
* [[Sextus Aurelius Victor]] ''De Caesaribus'' (ca. 380)
* [[Sidonius Apollinaris]] ''Carmina'' (late 5th c.)
* [[Strabo]] ''[[Geographica]]'' (ca. 10 AD)
* [[Tacitus]] ''[[Annals (Tacitus)|Annales]]'' (ca. 100 AD)
* [[Tacitus]] ''[[Germania (book)|Germania]]'' (ca. 100)
* [[Zosimus]] ''Historia Nova'' (ca. 500)

=== Modern ===
* Barrington (2000): ''Atlas of the Greek and Roman World''
* Crişan, Ion (1978): ''Burebista and his Time''
* Faliyeyev, Alexander (2007): ''Dictionary of Continental Celtic Placenames'' (online)
* Goldsworthy, Adrian (2000): ''Roman Warfare''
* Jones, A.H.M. (1964): ''Later Roman Empire''
* Köbler, Gerhard (2000): ''Indo-Germanisches Wörterbuch'' (online)
* Thompson, E.A. (1996): ''The Huns''
* Todd, Malcolm (2004): ''The early Germans''
* Wolfram, Herwig (1988): ''History of the Goths''

== See also ==
* [[Sarmatians]]
* [[Dacians]]
* [[Carpi (Dacian tribe)]]
* [[Goths]]

[[Category:Ancient peoples]]
[[Category:Ancient Germanic peoples]]
[[Category:Wars involving the Roman Republic]]
[[Category:Wars involving the Roman Empire]]
[[Category:Hellenistic-era tribes in the Balkans]]
[[Category:Dacia]]
[[Category:Hellenistic Thrace]]
[[Category:Antigonid Macedonia]]

[[ar:باستارنيون]]
[[be:Бастарны]]
[[bg:Бастарни]]
[[ca:Bastarnes]]
[[de:Bastarnen]]
[[es:Bastarnos]]
[[fr:Bastarnes]]
[[it:Bastarni]]
[[hu:Bastarnák]]
[[pl:Bastarnowie]]
[[pt:Bastarnae]]
[[ro:Bastarni]]
[[ru:Бастарны]]
[[sv:Bastarner]]
[[uk:Бастарни]]
[[zh:巴斯塔奈人]]




Strabo describes the Bastarnae territory vaguely as "between the ''Ister'' (river Danube) and the ''Borysthenes'' (river Dnieper)". He identifies three sub-tribes of the Bastarnae: the Atmoni, Sidoni and Peucini. The latter derived their name from [[Peuce]], a large island in the Danube delta which they had colonised.Strabo VII.3.17 {{hcref|a|Peuce island}} The 2nd century geographer Ptolemy states that the Carpiani or [[Carpi (Dacian tribe)|Carpi]] (believed to have occupied [[Moldavia]]) separated the Peucini from the other Bastarnae "above Dacia".Ptolemy III.5.9 The consensus among modern scholars is that the Bastarnae were, in the 2nd century, divided into two main groups. The larger group inhabited the north-eastern slopes of the Carpathians and the area between the [[Prut]] and [[Dnieper]] rivers (Moldova Republic/Western Ukraine), while a separate smaller group (the Peucini) dwelt in and North of the Danube delta region. Only the Peucini, therefore, were situated on the extreme northern border of the Roman province of [[Moesia Inferior]], which ran along the southernmost branch of the Danube delta.Barrington Plate 22
IOANNAAAAAA !...

The Getae (Greek: Γέται, singular Γέτης) was the name given by the Greeks to several Thracian / Dacian tribes that occupied the regions south of the Lower Danube, in what is today northern Bulgaria, and north of the Lower Danube, in Romania. This was in the hinterland of Greek colonies on the Black Sea coast, bringing the Getae into contact with the ancient Greeks from an early date.
Early history

From the 7th century BC onwards, the Getae came into economic and cultural contact with the Greeks, who were establishing colonies on the western side of Pontus Euxinus, nowadays the Black Sea. The Getae are mentioned for the first time together in Herodotus in his narrative of the Scythian campaign of Darius I in 513 BC. According to Herodotus, the Getae differed from other Thracian tribes in their religion, centered around the god (daimon) Zalmoxis whom some of the Getae called Gebeleizis.[1]

Between the 5th century BC and the 3rd century BC, the Getae were mostly under the rule of the flourishing Odrysian kingdom. During this time, the Getae provided military services and became famous for their cavalry. After the disintegration of the Odrysian kingdom, smaller Getic principalities began to consolidate themselves.

Before setting out on his Persian expedition, Alexander the Great defeated the Getae and razed one of their settlements.[2] In 313 BC, the Getae formed an alliance with Callatis, Odessos, and other western Pontic Greek colonies against Lysimachus, who held a fortress at Tirizis (modern Kaliakra).[3]

The Getae flourished especially in the first half of the 3rd century BC. By about 200 BC, the authority of the Getic prince, Zalmodegicus, stretched as far as Histria (Sinoe), as a contemporary inscription shows.[4] Other strong princes included Zoltes and Rhemaxos (about 180 BC). Also, several Getic rulers minted their own coins. The ancient authors Strabo[5] and Cassius Dio[6] say that Getae practiced ruler cult, and this is confirmed by archaeological remains.

In 72-71 BC, Marcus Terentius Varro Lucullus became the first Roman commander to march against the Getae. This was done to strike at the western Pontic allies of Mithridates VI, but he had limited success. A decade later, a coalition of Scythians, Getae, Bastarnae and Greek colonists defeated C. Antonius Hybrida at Histria (Sinoe).[7][8] This victory over the Romans allowed Burebista to dominate the region for a short period (60-50 BC).

Augustus aimed at subjugating the entire Balkan peninsula, and used an incursion of the Bastarnae across the Danube as a pretext to devastate the Getae and Thracians. He put [[Marcus Licinius Crassus] Crassus? Really? Wasn't he killed at Carrhae before anyone had even heard of Augustus, nor imagined that his adoptive father, Julius Caesar, would overthrow the Republic?] in charge of the plan. In 29 BC, Crassus defeated the Bastarnae with the help of the Getic prince Rholes.[9] Crassus promised him help for his support against the Getic ruler Dapyx.[10] After Crassus had reached as far the Danube delta, Rholes was appointed king and returned to Rome. In 16 BC, the Sarmatae invaded the Getic territory and were driven back by Roman troops.[11] The Getae were placed under the control of the Roman vassal king in Thrace, Rhoemetalces I. In 12 and 15 AD, these garrisons were fortified with Roman troops. In 45 AD, the province of Moesia was founded.
Getae and Dacians

There is dispute among scholars whether the Getae were Dacians or had some other relationship with them.

The sources from the Antiquity claim the ethnic or linguistic identity of the two people. In his Geographia, Strabo wrote about the two tribes speaking the same language.[12] Justin considers the Dacians are the successors of the Getae.[13] In his Roman history, Cassius Dio shows the Dacians to live on both sides of the Lower Danube, the ones south of the river (today's northern Bulgaria), in Moesia, and are called Moesians, while the ones north of the river are called Dacians. He argues that the Dacians are "Getae or Thracians of Dacian race"[14] but also stresses the fact that he calls the Dacians with the name used "by the natives themselves and also by the Romans" and that he is "not ignorant that some Greek writers refer to them as Getae, whether that is the right form or not".[15]

In accordance with these testimonies some Romanian and Bulgarian scholars[16] developed hypotheses and theories arguing for common cultural, ethnical or linguistical features in the space north of Haemus mountains where both the populations of Dacians and of Getae were located. The linguist Ivan Duridanov identified a "Dacian linguistic area"[17] in Dacia, Scythia Minor, Lower Moesia and Upper Moesia. The archaeologist Mircea Babeş speaks of a "veritable ethno-cultural unity" between the Getae and the Dacians while the historian and archaeologist Alexandru Vulpe finds a remarkable uniformity of the Geto-Dacian culture.[18] There were also studies on Strabo's reliability and sources.[19]

Some of these interpretation have echoed in other historiographies.[20]

The Romanian historian of ideas and historiographer Lucian Boia states: "At a certain point, the phrase Geto-Dacian was coined in the Romanian historiography to suggest a unity of Getae and Dacians".[21] Lucian Boia takes a skeptical position and argues the ancient writers distinguished among the two people, treating them as two distinct groups of the Thracian ethnos.[21][22] Boia contends that it would be naive to assume Strabo knew the Thracian dialects so well,[21] alleging that Strabo had "no competence in the field of Thracian dialects".[22] He also stresses that some Romanian authors cited Strabo indiscriminately.[22]

His position was supported by other scholars. The historian and archaeologist G. A. Niculescu also criticized the Romanian historiography and the archaeological interpretation, particularly on the "Geto-Dacian" culture. [23]
Culture

According to Herodotus, the Getae were "the noblest as well as the most just of all the Thracian tribes."[24] When the Persians, led by Darius the Great, campaigned against the Scythians, the Thracian tribes in the Balkans surrendered to Darius on his way to Scythia, and only the Getae offered resistance.[24]

One episode from the history of the Getae is attested by several ancient writers.[25][26]

When Lysimachus tried to subdue the Getae he was defeated by them. The Getae king, Dromichaetes, took him prisoner but he treated him well and convinced Lysimachus there is more to gain as an ally than as an enemy of the Getae and released him. According to Diodorus, Dromichaetes entertained Lysimachus at his palace at Helis, where food was served on gold and silver plates. The discovery of the celebrated tomb at Sveshtari (1982) suggests that Helis was located perhaps in its vicinity,[27] where remains of a large antique city are found along with dozens of other Thracian mound tombs.

As stated earlier, the principal god of the Getae was Zalmoxis whom they sometimes called Gebeleizis.

"This same people, when it lightens and thunders, aim their arrows at the sky, uttering threats against the god; and they do not believe that there is any god but their own." - Herodotus. Histories, 4.94.

Pliny the Elder in his Naturalis Historia mentions a tribe called the Tyragetae (or Thyssagetæ),[28] apparently a Daco-Thracian tribe who dwelt by the river Tyras (the Dniester). Their tribal name appears to be a combination of Tyras and Getae.

The Roman poet Ovid, during his long exile, is asserted to have written poetry (now lost) in the Getic language.
Legacy

At the close of the fourth century AD, Claudian, court poet to the emperor Honorius and the patrician Stilicho, habitually uses the ethnonym Getae to refer poetically to the Visigoths.

During 5th and 6th centuries, several writers (Marcellinus Comes, Orosius, John Lydus, Isidore of Seville, Procopius of Caesarea) used the same ethnonym Getae to name populations invading the Eastern Roman Empire (Goths, Gepids, Kutrigurs, Slavs). For instance, in the third book of the History of the Wars Procopius details: "There were many Gothic nations in earlier times, just as also at the present, but the greatest and most important of all are the Goths, Vandals, Visigoths, and Gepaedes. In ancient times, however, they were named Sauromatae and Melanchlaeni; and there were some too who called these nations Getic."[29]

The Getae were also assumed to be the ancestors of the Goths by Jordanes in his Getica written at the middle of the 6th century. Jordanes assumed the earlier testimony of Orosius.
See also

* Tomyris
* Massagetae
* Thyssagetae
* Gaut
* Jats
* Oium

References

1. ^ Herodotus. Histories, 4.93-4.97.
2. ^ Arrian. Anabasis, Book IA. "The Getae did not sustain even the first charge of the cavalry; for Alexander’s audacity seemed incredible to them, in having thus easily crossed the Ister, the largest of rivers, in a single night, without throwing a bridge over the stream. Terrible to them also was the closely-locked order of the phalanx, and violent the charge of the cavalry. At first they fled for refuge into their city, which. was distant about a parasang from the Ister; but when they saw that Alexander was leading his phalanx carefully along the side of the river, to prevent his infantry being anywhere surrounded by the Getae lying in ambush, but that he was sending his cavalry straight on, they again abandoned the city, because it was badly fortified."
3. ^ Strabo. Geography, 7.6.1. "On this coast-line is Cape Tirizis, a stronghold, which Lysimachus once used as a treasury."
4. ^ Supplementum Epigraphicum Graecum 18.288
5. ^ Strabo. Geography, 16.2.38-16.2.39.
6. ^ Cassius Dio. Roman History, 68.9.
7. ^ Livy. Ab Urbe Condita, 103.
8. ^ Cassius Dio. Roman History, 38.10.1-38.10.3.
9. ^ Cassius Dio. Roman History, 52.24.7; 26.1.
10. ^ Cassius Dio. Roman History, 51.26.
11. ^ Cassius Dio. Roman History, 54.20.1-54.20.3.
12. ^ Strabo. Geography, Book VII, Chapter 3.13. "The language of the Daci is the same as that of the Getae."
13. ^ Justin, Epitome of Pompeius Trogus: "Daci quoque suboles Getarum sunt" (The Dacians as well are a scion of the Getae).
14. ^ Cassius Dio. Roman History, 55.22.6-55.22.7. "The Suebi, to be exact, dwell beyond the Rhine (though many people elsewhere claim their name), and the Dacians on both sides of the Ister; those of the latter, however, who live on this side of the river near the country of the Triballi are reckoned in with the district of Moesia and are called Moesians, except by those living in the immediate neighbourhood, while those on the other side are called Dacians and are either a branch of the Getae are Thracians belonging to the Dacian race that once inhabited Rhodope."
15. ^ Cassius Dio. Roman History, 67.6.2.
16. ^ Giurescu, Constantin C. (1973) (in Romanian). Formarea poporului român. Craiova. p. 23. "They (Dacians and Getae) are two names for the same people [...] divided in a large number of tribes". See also the hypothesis of a Daco-Moesian language / dialectal area supported by linguists like Vladimir Georgiev, Ivan Duridanov and Sorin Olteanu.
17. ^ Duridanov, Ivan. "The Thracian, Dacian and Paeonian languages". www.kroraina.com/thrac_lang/thrac_8.html. Retrieved 2007-02-11.
18. ^ Petrescu-Dîmboviţa, Mircea; Vulpe, Alexandru (eds), ed (2001) (in Romanian). Istoria Românilor, vol. I. Bucharest. It should be noted Al. Vulpe speaks of Geto-Dacians as a conventional and instrumental concept for the Thracian tribes inhabiting this space, but not meaning an "absolute ethnic, linguistic or historical unity".
19. ^ Janakieva, Svetlana (2002). "La notion de ΟΜΟΓΛΩΤΤΟΙ chez Strabon et la situation ethno-linguistique sur les territoires thraces" (in French). Études Balkaniques (4): 75–79. The author concludes Strabo's claim sums an experience following of many centuries of neighbourhood and cultural interferences between the Greeks and the Thracian tribes
20. ^ The Cambridge Ancient History (Volume 3) (2nd ed.). Cambridge University Press. 1982. In chapter "20c Linguistic problems of the Balkan area", at page 838, Ronald Arthur Crossland argues "it may be the distinction made by Greeks and Romans between the Getae and Daci, for example, reflected the importance of different sections of a linguistically homogenous people at different times". He furthermore recalls Strabo's testimony and Georgiev's hypothesis for a 'Thraco-Dacian' language.
21. ^ a b c Boia, Lucian (2004). Romania: Borderland of Europe. Reaktion Books. p. 43. ISBN 1-86189-103-2.
22. ^ a b c Boia, Lucian (2001). History and Myth in Romanian Consciousness. Central European University Press. p. 14. ISBN 9639116971.
23. ^ Niculescu, Gheorghe Alexandru (2004-2005). "Archaeology, Nationalism and "The History of the Romanians" (2001)". Dacia - Revue d'archéologie et d'histoire ancienne (48-49): 99–124. He dedicates a large part of his assessment to the archaeology of "Geto-Dacians" and he concludes that with few exceptions "the archaeological interpretations [...] are following G. Kossinna’s concepts of culture, archaeology and ethnicity".
24. ^ a b Herodotus. Histories, 4.93.
25. ^ Strabo. Geography, 3.8.
26. ^ Pausanias. Description of Greece, 1.9.5.
27. ^ Delev, P. (2000). "Lysimachus, the Getae, and Archaeology (2000)". The Classical Quarterly, New Series 50 (Vol. 50, No. 2): 384–401. doi:10.1093/cq/50.2.384.
28. ^ Pliny the Elder. Naturalis Historia, 4.26. "Leaving Taphræ, and going along the mainland, we find in the interior the Auchetæ, in whose country the Hypanis has its rise, as also the Neurœ, in whose district the Borysthenes has its source, the Geloni, the Thyssagetæ, the Budini, the Basilidæ, and the Agathyrsi with their azure-coloured hair."
29. ^ Procopius. History of the Wars, Book III

pt. măgarii de la 9 am

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The earliest source on this matter is the Greek historian Herodotus. Here is his account of the matter (Persian Wars 4.94-6):

The belief of the Getae in respect of immortality is the following. They think that they do not really die, but that when they depart this life they go to Zalmoxis, who is called also Gebeleizis by some among them. To this god every five years they send a messenger, who is chosen by lot out of the whole nation, and charged to bear him their several requests. Their mode of sending him is this. A number of them stand in order, each holding in his hand three darts; others take the man who is to be sent to Zalmoxis, and swinging him by his hands and feet, toss him into the air so that he falls upon the points of the weapons. If he is pierced and dies, they think that the god is propitious to them; but if not, they lay the fault on the messenger, who (they say) is a wicked man: and so they choose another to send away. The messages are given while the man is still alive. This same people, when it lightens and thunders, aim their arrows at the sky, uttering threats against the god; and they do not believe that there is any god but their own.

I am told by the Greeks who dwell on the shores of the Hellespont and the Pontus, that this Zalmoxis was in reality a man, that he lived at Samos, and while there was the slave of Pythagoras son of Mnesarchus. After obtaining his freedom he grew rich, and leaving Samos, returned to his own country. The Thracians at that time lived in a wretched way, and were a poor ignorant race; Zalmoxis, therefore, who by his commerce with the Greeks, and especially with one who was by no means their most contemptible philosopher, Pythagoras to wit, was acquainted with the Ionic mode of life and with manners more refined than those current among his countrymen, had a chamber built, in which from time to time he received and feasted all the principal Thracians, using the occasion to teach them that neither he, nor they, his boon companions, nor any of their posterity would ever perish, but that they would all go to a place where they would live for aye in the enjoyment of every conceivable good. While he was acting in this way, and holding this kind of discourse, he was constructing an apartment underground, into which, when it was completed, he withdrew, vanishing suddenly from the eyes of the Thracians, who greatly regretted his loss, and mourned over him as one dead. He meanwhile abode in his secret chamber three full years, after which he came forth from his concealment, and showed himself once more to his countrymen, who were thus brought to believe in the truth of what he had taught them. Such is the account of the Greeks.

I for my part neither put entire faith in this story of Zalmoxis and his underground chamber, nor do I altogether discredit it: but I believe Zalmoxis to have lived long before the time of Pythagoras. Whether there was ever really a man of the name, or whether Zalmoxis is nothing but a native god of the Getae, I now bid him farewell. As for the Getae themselves, the people who observe the practices described above, they were now reduced by the Persians, and accompanied the army of Darius.

De la: mytcor, la data 2009-12-15 12:02:22 pt. măgarii de la 9 am

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Roman_Empire_125.svg...]

toti avem dreptate,toti aveti dreptate,toti stim adevarul,toti stiti adevarul,fiecare are dreptate,fiecare cunoaste adevarul,FIECARE ARE DREPTATEA SI ADEVARUL SAU- TRAIASCA DREPTATEA si ADEVARUL !!! Nu scuipa niciodata in oglinda!!! Intotdeauna poti face mai mult decat ai facut pana acum,niciodata nu e prea tarziu !!! Tot mai multi oameni ne vor binele,d'aia ne merge rau !!! "Orice adevar trece prin 3 faze:mai intai este ridiculizat, apoi trezeste o opozitie violenta,si in sfarsit este acceptat ca fiind evident de la sine"-Avicena. Daca nu stiu ca nu stiu, atunci mi se pare ca stiu. ANUNT UMANITAR :Rog Prostii si Cretinii,sa stea departe de mine !!! “Nu poti sa tratezi ochiul fara sa tii cont de cap, nu poti sa tratezi capul fara sa tii cont de minte si nu poti sa tratezi mintea fara sa tii cont de sufletul si spiritul omului.” (Zamolxe) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNu44XzTnLY Sunt doua feluri de a-ti trai viata... Unul - de a crede ca nu exista miracole. Altul - de a crede ca totul este un miracol. Albert Einstein DACA N-AM AVEA DEFECTE,NU NE-AR FACE PLACERE SA LE VEDEM PE ALE CELORLALTI,TOTI SUNTEM DEFECTI DESI NOI NE VEDEM NUMAI CALITATILE ....Barbatii conduc lumea. Femeile ii conduc pe barbati.....Caracterul fara inteligenta poate mult, dar inteligenta fara caracter nu valoreaza nimic. (CICERO )...Un om singur nu are nici o putere,puterea i-o dau cei care-l sustin...Vorba multa,saracia omului...Cine nu este corect cu el insusi,nu poate convinge pe nimeni de adevarul spuselor sale. Toti oamenii normali se inteleg in probleme de viata,stiinte si creatie. Nu-ti dori prea multe,n-o sa ai unde le pune. Mare pacat trebuie sa fie viata,daca se pedepseste cu moartea." Exista batalii pe care este bine sa le ocolesti , nu din teama ca le - ai putea pierde , ci pentru ca ai deveni ridicol castigandu - le " Gelu Negrea Ca sa intelegi ca esti prost trebuie totusi sa-ti mearga mintea[Georges Brassens] Nimeni nu este destul de inteligent ca sa poata convinge un prost ca e prost. Rau e cand esti prost,dar si mai rau este cand nu-ti dai seama ca esti prost,crezandu-te inteligent.Credeti in cel ce cauta ADEVARUL si feriti-va de cei care l-au gasit. Adevarul este pretutindeni,dar nu-l recunoaste decat cel care-l cauta-NICOLAE IORGA Primul om care a preferat sa injure decat sa dea cu piatra poate fi considerat inventatorul civilizatiei-SIGMUND FREUD Daca vrei sa cunosti un om cu adevarat,da-i o functie de conducere-ROBERT BRASILLACH Nimic nu este mai scump decat ceea ce primesti gratis. Cu cat regulile sunt mai stricte,cu atat capul care le-a conceput este mai prost- JEAN de la BRUYERE Nu e greu sa fii darnic azi,greu este sa nu regreti maine-JULES RENARD Bine ne pot face numai anumiti oameni,rau ne poate face orice prost ...Un snob este un om care a fost educat mai mult decat ii permitea inteligenta.....Este bine sa lasi bautura....insa rau este sa uiti unde ai lasat-o.....

mytcorceva in romana nu ai? imi ia o zi sa traduc. Fa te rog un rezumat in romana

Am inteles ca e ptr magari si englezi postarea. Deci eu plec.

Cei ce le interzic altora accesul la anumite aspecte ale vietii.....sint satui de acel aspect.

"Romani! Ridicati capetele plecate! Indreptati spinarile incovoiate! Alungati tristetea si lipsa de sperante din aste zile. Nu mai stati timorati si complexati in fata unei Europe care ne datoreaza insasi existenta. Amintiti-va din nou de Marele nostru Stefan. De toti mosii si stramosii care nu au lasat neamul sa piara. Cu sute de ani inainte de Americi, teroristi, CIA-uri, Al- Qaede si atentate regizate, Stefan cel Mare si Sfant administra Islamului cea mai mare infrangere suferita vreodata de vreo armie musulmana din partea unui lider crestin. Nici macar victoriile lui Carol cel Mare, Cid-ul, Skanderbeg sau oricare riga european din istorie nu se pot compara ca importanta politica si dramatism cu baia de sange si noroi in care s-a cufundat cea mai puternica armata a vremii. Nimeni altul decat cel mai bun corp expeditionar al teribilului Mahomed al doilea, avea sa sfarseasca drept ingrasamant pentru ogoarele Vasluiului…

Europa valahilor

Oricat de hazardat le-ar putea parea unora, Europa secolelor XIV si XV a apartinut din punct de vedere militar micilor formatiuni statale romanesti care s-au opus cu succes celei mai mari forte a vremii, temutul Imperiu Otoman. Fara niciun fel de exagerare, putem spune ca daca este sa pastram proportiile cu ceea ce eram acum 500-600 ani, Romania de azi ar trebui sa infranga in lupta armata Statelor Unite, Rusiei sau Chinei... Nu-i asa ca va pufneste rasul? Trecand peste neincrederea si dezamagirea provocate de situatia Romaniei din prezent pe toate planurile, inclusiv militar, trebuie sa ne amintim macar ca eram intr-atat de neclintiti pe vremuri, incat administram infrangeri umilitoare puternicilor lumii. Iar celor care nu sunt inca convinsi de forta si spiritul razboinic al stramosilor nostri, le prezint o scurta comparatie intre proportia de forte intalnita intre "marile" batalii ale Europei Apusene si confruntarile militare ale voievodatelor romanesti. Faimosul Razboi de o suta de ani, bataliile de la Azincourt, Formigny, Castillon sunt confruntari intre osti care numarau maximum 10.000-20.000 de soldati, ultimele chiar mai putin de 5.000..."

Cei ce le interzic altora accesul la anumite aspecte ale vietii.....sint satui de acel aspect.

Stefan a fost doar unul din acei conducatori care au fost asa. Iar daca nu era modul de comportare al rominilor de asa natura in fata pericolelor, nici un conducator nu putea sa faca nimic in fata celor 3 imperii care ne-au amenintat.
Iar Europa ne datoreaza existenta ca model democratic, si nu noi lor. Acum, Europa era musulmana, cu oameni ucisi in strada ptr orice moitiv, daca nu erau rominii aici.

Cei ce le interzic altora accesul la anumite aspecte ale vietii.....sint satui de acel aspect.

Iar acel spirit care ne-a animat in secolele trecute a fost spiritul dac, de a infrunta pericolul in fata.
Acum in epoca moderna pericolul mai mult de natura ideatica, poate fi demontat, infruntindu-l mental. Si lasindu-l sa treaca mai departe sau demontindu-l ca o jucarie de copil.

Cei ce le interzic altora accesul la anumite aspecte ale vietii.....sint satui de acel aspect.

De la: nastasemihail, la data 2009-12-17 05:44:25"Romani! Ridicati capetele plecate! Indreptati spinarile incovoiate! Alungati tristetea si lipsa de sperante din aste zile. Nu mai stati timorati si complexati in fata unei Europe care ne datoreaza insasi existenta. Amintiti-va din nou de Marele nostru Stefan. De toti mosii si stramosii care nu au lasat neamul sa piara. Cu sute de ani inainte de Americi, teroristi, CIA-uri, Al- Qaede si atentate regizate, Stefan cel Mare si Sfant administra Islamului cea mai mare infrangere suferita vreodata de vreo armie musulmana din partea unui lider crestin. Nici macar victoriile lui Carol cel Mare, Cid-ul, Skanderbeg sau oricare riga european din istorie nu se pot compara ca importanta politica si dramatism cu baia de sange si noroi in care s-a cufundat cea mai puternica armata a vremii. Nimeni altul decat cel mai bun corp expeditionar al teribilului Mahomed al doilea, avea sa sfarseasca drept ingrasamant pentru ogoarele Vasluiului…

Europa valahilor

Oricat de hazardat le-ar putea parea unora, Europa secolelor XIV si XV a apartinut din punct de vedere militar micilor formatiuni statale romanesti care s-au opus cu succes celei mai mari forte a vremii, temutul Imperiu Otoman. Fara niciun fel de exagerare, putem spune ca daca este sa pastram proportiile cu ceea ce eram acum 500-600 ani, Romania de azi ar trebui sa infranga in lupta armata Statelor Unite, Rusiei sau Chinei... Nu-i asa ca va pufneste rasul? Trecand peste neincrederea si dezamagirea provocate de situatia Romaniei din prezent pe toate planurile, inclusiv militar, trebuie sa ne amintim macar ca eram intr-atat de neclintiti pe vremuri, incat administram infrangeri umilitoare puternicilor lumii. Iar celor care nu sunt inca convinsi de forta si spiritul razboinic al stramosilor nostri, le prezint o scurta comparatie intre proportia de forte intalnita intre "marile" batalii ale Europei Apusene si confruntarile militare ale voievodatelor romanesti. Faimosul Razboi de o suta de ani, bataliile de la Azincourt, Formigny, Castillon sunt confruntari intre osti care numarau maximum 10.000-20.000 de soldati, ultimele chiar mai putin de 5.000..."

Cu unele aspecte din articol nu sint intru totul de acord. Cel mai mare pericol al nostru a venit si vine din alt punct cardinal.

Cei ce le interzic altora accesul la anumite aspecte ale vietii.....sint satui de acel aspect.

De la: nastasemihail, la data 2009-12-17 06:21:35

De la: nastasemihail, la data 2009-12-17 05:44:25"Romani! Ridicati capetele plecate! Indreptati spinarile incovoiate! Alungati tristetea si lipsa de sperante din aste zile. Nu mai stati timorati si complexati in fata unei Europe care ne datoreaza insasi existenta. Amintiti-va din nou de Marele nostru Stefan. De toti mosii si stramosii care nu au lasat neamul sa piara. Cu sute de ani inainte de Americi, teroristi, CIA-uri, Al- Qaede si atentate regizate, Stefan cel Mare si Sfant administra Islamului cea mai mare infrangere suferita vreodata de vreo armie musulmana din partea unui lider crestin. Nici macar victoriile lui Carol cel Mare, Cid-ul, Skanderbeg sau oricare riga european din istorie nu se pot compara ca importanta politica si dramatism cu baia de sange si noroi in care s-a cufundat cea mai puternica armata a vremii. Nimeni altul decat cel mai bun corp expeditionar al teribilului Mahomed al doilea, avea sa sfarseasca drept ingrasamant pentru ogoarele Vasluiului…

Europa valahilor

Oricat de hazardat le-ar putea parea unora, Europa secolelor XIV si XV a apartinut din punct de vedere militar micilor formatiuni statale romanesti care s-au opus cu succes celei mai mari forte a vremii, temutul Imperiu Otoman. Fara niciun fel de exagerare, putem spune ca daca este sa pastram proportiile cu ceea ce eram acum 500-600 ani, Romania de azi ar trebui sa infranga in lupta armata Statelor Unite, Rusiei sau Chinei... Nu-i asa ca va pufneste rasul? Trecand peste neincrederea si dezamagirea provocate de situatia Romaniei din prezent pe toate planurile, inclusiv militar, trebuie sa ne amintim macar ca eram intr-atat de neclintiti pe vremuri, incat administram infrangeri umilitoare puternicilor lumii. Iar celor care nu sunt inca convinsi de forta si spiritul razboinic al stramosilor nostri, le prezint o scurta comparatie intre proportia de forte intalnita intre "marile" batalii ale Europei Apusene si confruntarile militare ale voievodatelor romanesti. Faimosul Razboi de o suta de ani, bataliile de la Azincourt, Formigny, Castillon sunt confruntari intre osti care numarau maximum 10.000-20.000 de soldati, ultimele chiar mai putin de 5.000..."

Cu unele aspecte din articol nu sint intru totul de acord. Cel mai mare pericol al nostru a venit si vine din alt punct cardinal.

eu cred ca pericolul cel mai mare vine din interior..
cand o fi sa fie,dezintegrarea se va produce prin implozie!

mytcor imi faci si mie un rezumat in lb romana la ceea ce ai postat in engleza?

De la: mihaivilcu2004, la data 2009-12-17 11:21:35mytcor imi faci si mie un rezumat in lb romana la ceea ce ai postat in engleza?

scuze , n-am timp !...

vezi aici, este un link pe traducere automten:

translate.google.com/translate?hl=ro&sl=en&u=www.mlahanas.de/Gre...

Acea viata linistita si cu multe creatii acumulate in timp, din vest, se datoreaza si existentei acestui popor, romin, care i-a ferit de acele hoarde tatare si otomane in secolele cind a inceput chiar dezvoltarea Europei.
As fi vrut sa vad cum s-ar fi dezvoltat Europa de vest, daca era nevoita sa-si duca INTREAGA populatie in munti si sa pirjoleasca totul in calea unor navalitori. Dupa cite stiu eu, a avut probleme, de la huni si popoarele migratoare ale mileniului intii. Si mai putin timurlenk, sec 12. Dupa care liniste, sau probleme create de diversi regi razboinici interni.
Ajutorul pe care ni l-au dat la nevoie, era o imbarbatare verbala, prin soli.

Cei ce le interzic altora accesul la anumite aspecte ale vietii.....sint satui de acel aspect.

De la: nastasemihail, la data 2009-12-18 08:15:08Acea viata linistita si cu multe creatii acumulate in timp, din vest, se datoreaza si existentei acestui popor, romin, care i-a ferit de acele hoarde tatare si otomane in secolele cind a inceput chiar dezvoltarea Europei.
As fi vrut sa vad cum s-ar fi dezvoltat Europa de vest, daca era nevoita sa-si duca INTREAGA populatie in munti si sa pirjoleasca totul in calea unor navalitori. Dupa cite stiu eu, a avut probleme, de la huni si popoarele migratoare ale mileniului intii. Si mai putin timurlenk, sec 12. Dupa care liniste, sau probleme create de diversi regi razboinici interni.
Ajutorul pe care ni l-au dat la nevoie, era o imbarbatare verbala, prin soli.

ROMANUL ESTE VESNIC FOLOSIT CA POPOR DE SACRIFICIU

De la: 9am045616, la data 2009-12-18 08:28:11

De la: nastasemihail, la data 2009-12-18 08:15:08Acea viata linistita si cu multe creatii acumulate in timp, din vest, se datoreaza si existentei acestui popor, romin, care i-a ferit de acele hoarde tatare si otomane in secolele cind a inceput chiar dezvoltarea Europei.
As fi vrut sa vad cum s-ar fi dezvoltat Europa de vest, daca era nevoita sa-si duca INTREAGA populatie in munti si sa pirjoleasca totul in calea unor navalitori. Dupa cite stiu eu, a avut probleme, de la huni si popoarele migratoare ale mileniului intii. Si mai putin timurlenk, sec 12. Dupa care liniste, sau probleme create de diversi regi razboinici interni.
Ajutorul pe care ni l-au dat la nevoie, era o imbarbatare verbala, prin soli.

ROMANUL ESTE VESNIC FOLOSIT CA POPOR DE SACRIFICIU

Tocmai se firseste aceasta vesnicie. Stiu cam sigur.

Cei ce le interzic altora accesul la anumite aspecte ale vietii.....sint satui de acel aspect.

De la: nastasemihail, la data 2009-12-18 08:32:27

De la: 9am045616, la data 2009-12-18 08:28:11

De la: nastasemihail, la data 2009-12-18 08:15:08Acea viata linistita si cu multe creatii acumulate in timp, din vest, se datoreaza si existentei acestui popor, romin, care i-a ferit de acele hoarde tatare si otomane in secolele cind a inceput chiar dezvoltarea Europei.
As fi vrut sa vad cum s-ar fi dezvoltat Europa de vest, daca era nevoita sa-si duca INTREAGA populatie in munti si sa pirjoleasca totul in calea unor navalitori. Dupa cite stiu eu, a avut probleme, de la huni si popoarele migratoare ale mileniului intii. Si mai putin timurlenk, sec 12. Dupa care liniste, sau probleme create de diversi regi razboinici interni.
Ajutorul pe care ni l-au dat la nevoie, era o imbarbatare verbala, prin soli.

ROMANUL ESTE VESNIC FOLOSIT CA POPOR DE SACRIFICIU

Tocmai se firseste aceasta vesnicie. Stiu cam sigur.

fii mai explicit te rog! crezi ca ne vom trezi din"somnul cel de moarte"? Ca romanii isi vor regasii identitatea nationala? Intraba oamenii din jur despre ce-au facut stramosii lor pentru ei si vei vedea ca nu le pasa! Trist.....

De la: mihaivilcu2004, la data 2009-12-18 10:18:07

De la: nastasemihail, la data 2009-12-18 08:32:27

De la: 9am045616, la data 2009-12-18 08:28:11

De la: nastasemihail, la data 2009-12-18 08:15:08Acea viata linistita si cu multe creatii acumulate in timp, din vest, se datoreaza si existentei acestui popor, romin, care i-a ferit de acele hoarde tatare si otomane in secolele cind a inceput chiar dezvoltarea Europei.
As fi vrut sa vad cum s-ar fi dezvoltat Europa de vest, daca era nevoita sa-si duca INTREAGA populatie in munti si sa pirjoleasca totul in calea unor navalitori. Dupa cite stiu eu, a avut probleme, de la huni si popoarele migratoare ale mileniului intii. Si mai putin timurlenk, sec 12. Dupa care liniste, sau probleme create de diversi regi razboinici interni.
Ajutorul pe care ni l-au dat la nevoie, era o imbarbatare verbala, prin soli.

ROMANUL ESTE VESNIC FOLOSIT CA POPOR DE SACRIFICIU

Tocmai se firseste aceasta vesnicie. Stiu cam sigur.

fii mai explicit te rog! crezi ca ne vom trezi din"somnul cel de moarte"? Ca romanii isi vor regasii identitatea nationala? Intraba oamenii din jur despre ce-au facut stramosii lor pentru ei si vei vedea ca nu le pasa! Trist.....

Hai sa-ti spun eu ce au facut stramosii nostri pentru noi: copii la lumina lumanarii. Nu-i asa ca era romantic ?
Dimineata de exemplu, incepeau cu o tuiculita de prune, la amiaza continuau munca ... si mai pe seara ... nu se mai tineau pe picioare.

Ori suntem capitalisti, ori nu mai suntem.

De la: ioanna_dark, la data 2009-12-05 20:01:10despre spiritualitatea dacilor prea multe surse nu sunt. totuși , dintre cele câteva pe care le avem cea mai importantă dintre ele este o pagină din cartea a 4-a a lui herodot despre care am mai vorbit pe acest topic.
mai sunt alte câteva , dar în esență spun cam același lucruri pe care le spune și herodot

... parca am auzit asta si la Vanghelie dupa un ''sarci'' pe Gugle.

Ori suntem capitalisti, ori nu mai suntem.

De la: Dorinel, la data 2009-12-19 00:57:49

De la: ioanna_dark, la data 2009-12-05 20:01:10despre spiritualitatea dacilor prea multe surse nu sunt. totuși , dintre cele câteva pe care le avem cea mai importantă dintre ele este o pagină din cartea a 4-a a lui herodot despre care am mai vorbit pe acest topic.
mai sunt alte câteva , dar în esență spun cam același lucruri pe care le spune și herodot

... parca am auzit asta si la Vanghelie dupa un ''sarci'' pe Gugle.

eu le-am spus doar sa citeasca ceea ce am postat deja pe topicul asta....

De la: ioanna_dark, la data 2009-12-19 20:18:49

De la: Dorinel, la data 2009-12-19 00:57:49

De la: ioanna_dark, la data 2009-12-05 20:01:10despre spiritualitatea dacilor prea multe surse nu sunt. totuși , dintre cele câteva pe care le avem cea mai importantă dintre ele este o pagină din cartea a 4-a a lui herodot despre care am mai vorbit pe acest topic.
mai sunt alte câteva , dar în esență spun cam același lucruri pe care le spune și herodot

... parca am auzit asta si la Vanghelie dupa un ''sarci'' pe Gugle.

eu le-am spus doar sa citeasca ceea ce am postat deja pe topicul asta....

Din an în an



Din an în an sosesc la noi
La geam cu Moş Ajun,
E ger cumplit şi drumu-i greu
Dar e-obicei străbun.

Azi cu strămoşii cânt în cor,
Colindul sfânt şi bun.
Tot "Moş" era şi-n vremea lor,
Bătrânul Moş Crăciun.

E sărbătoare şi e joc
În casa ta acum
Dar sunt bordeie fără foc
Şi mâine-i Moş Crăciun.

Acum te las, fii sănătos,
Şi vesel de Crăciun.
Dar nu uita, când eşti voios
Române, să fii bun!


Ciprian Porumbescu



Sărbători fericite ! ....Ioanna.

LA MULŢI ANI !......TUTUROR.

De la: mytcor, la data 2009-12-19 20:58:07

De la: ioanna_dark, la data 2009-12-19 20:18:49

De la: Dorinel, la data 2009-12-19 00:57:49

De la: ioanna_dark, la data 2009-12-05 20:01:10despre spiritualitatea dacilor prea multe surse nu sunt. totuși , dintre cele câteva pe care le avem cea mai importantă dintre ele este o pagină din cartea a 4-a a lui herodot despre care am mai vorbit pe acest topic.
mai sunt alte câteva , dar în esență spun cam același lucruri pe care le spune și herodot

... parca am auzit asta si la Vanghelie dupa un ''sarci'' pe Gugle.

eu le-am spus doar sa citeasca ceea ce am postat deja pe topicul asta....

Din an în an



Din an în an sosesc la noi
La geam cu Moş Ajun,
E ger cumplit şi drumu-i greu
Dar e-obicei străbun.

Azi cu strămoşii cânt în cor,
Colindul sfânt şi bun.
Tot "Moş" era şi-n vremea lor,
Bătrânul Moş Crăciun.

E sărbătoare şi e joc
În casa ta acum
Dar sunt bordeie fără foc
Şi mâine-i Moş Crăciun.

Acum te las, fii sănătos,
Şi vesel de Crăciun.
Dar nu uita, când eşti voios
Române, să fii bun!


Ciprian Porumbescu



Sărbători fericite ! ....Ioanna.

LA MULŢI ANI !......TUTUROR.

vai , mytcor...azi si maine mai stau pe forum...luni dimineata o sa ajung si eu la tara alaturi de ai mei sa petrecem sarbatorile de iarna...
daca nu ne mai vedem maine seara inainte sa plec iti urez si eu de pe acum

sarbatori fericite!!!!



ps: masonii sarbatoresc si ei craciunul?...pentru ei ce semnificatie are?

De la: ioanna_dark, la data 2009-12-19 21:40:21

De la: mytcor, la data 2009-12-19 20:58:07

De la: ioanna_dark, la data 2009-12-19 20:18:49

De la: Dorinel, la data 2009-12-19 00:57:49

De la: ioanna_dark, la data 2009-12-05 20:01:10despre spiritualitatea dacilor prea multe surse nu sunt. totuși , dintre cele câteva pe care le avem cea mai importantă dintre ele este o pagină din cartea a 4-a a lui herodot despre care am mai vorbit pe acest topic.
mai sunt alte câteva , dar în esență spun cam același lucruri pe care le spune și herodot

... parca am auzit asta si la Vanghelie dupa un ''sarci'' pe Gugle.

eu le-am spus doar sa citeasca ceea ce am postat deja pe topicul asta....

Din an în an



Din an în an sosesc la noi
La geam cu Moş Ajun,
E ger cumplit şi drumu-i greu
Dar e-obicei străbun.

Azi cu strămoşii cânt în cor,
Colindul sfânt şi bun.
Tot "Moş" era şi-n vremea lor,
Bătrânul Moş Crăciun.

E sărbătoare şi e joc
În casa ta acum
Dar sunt bordeie fără foc
Şi mâine-i Moş Crăciun.

Acum te las, fii sănătos,
Şi vesel de Crăciun.
Dar nu uita, când eşti voios
Române, să fii bun!


Ciprian Porumbescu



Sărbători fericite ! ....Ioanna.

LA MULŢI ANI !......TUTUROR.

vai , mytcor...azi si maine mai stau pe forum...luni dimineata o sa ajung si eu la tara alaturi de ai mei sa petrecem sarbatorile de iarna...
daca nu ne mai vedem maine seara inainte sa plec iti urez si eu de pe acum

sarbatori fericite!!!!



ps: masonii sarbatoresc si ei craciunul?...pentru ei ce semnificatie are?

dah...masonii si craciunul...ma si miram....

...DEDIC ACEASTĂ SUMARĂ TRECERE-N REVISTĂ, TUTUROR CELOR CE-AU POSTAT PE ACEST TOPIC.

SĂRBĂTORI FERICITE !....


Descoperire 1976.

Tezaur Hinova: obiecte podoabă din Au. 5Kg. datat. sec. VIII. î.e.n. Muz.N. I. Buc.

Descoperire 1845.

Tezaur Biia Jud.Alba : recipient ritualic şi brăţară Au. datat. sec.VII î.e.n. o piesă la Muz.Viena, cealaltă Muz.N.I.Buc.

Descoperire sec. XIX.

Tezaurul Fitireaz. Jud.Arad. 16 buc.brătări Au. datat. sec.VII î.e.n.

Descoperire 1986

Tezaurul tomitan: 60 ob. podobă Au. datat. sec. II î.e.n. Muz.I. Constanţa.

Descoperire 1951

Tezaurul Galeşu Jud. Constanţa 2 manşoane tronconice Au. datat 500 î.e.n. Muz.N.I.Bucureşti.

Descoperire 1984

Tezaur getic Buneşti Jud.Vaslui (cetate geto-dacă) diademă princiară Au. datat IV î.e.n. Muz.N.I.Buc.

Descoperire 1982

Tezaurul de la Brad Jud. Bacău 2 discuri Au. datat. 7000 ani (cultura cucuteni) Muz. O.Roman.

Descoperire 1959.

Tezaur Bădiceni Jud. Iaşi obiecte artă traco-getică datat. IV î.e.n. Muz.N.I.Buc.

Descoperire 1960

Tezaurul Stânceşti Jud.Botoşani. obiecte Au. datat V î.e.n. Muz.N.I. Buc.

Descoperire 1966

Tezaurul Rădeni Jud. Neamţ. 3 ceşti Au.(unicat) datat V î.e.n. Muz. Neamţ

Descoperire 1840

Tezaurul Ţufalău Jud. Covasna 3Kg Au. 300 ob.podoabă (depus într-un vas ceramic) printre obiecte, un topor din Au. datat VIII î.e.n. Muz.I. Viena.
Tezaurul Pipea Jud.Mureş Au. datat V î.e.n. Muz.N. Budapesta.
Tezaurul Vlad Jud. Braşov Au. Muz. I. Viena + 2 brăţări Au. dtate aceeaşi perioadă Muz.N. Budapesta

Descoperire 1928

Coiful getic din aur Coţofeneşti Jud. Prahova Au. datat IV î.e.n. Muz.N.I. Buc.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pandativ-Gumelniţa Jud.Călăraşi datat Mil. III î.e.n. Muz. N.I. Buc.

Descoperire 1954

Tezaurul Perşinari Jud.Dâmboviţa 11 pumnale şi fragment spadă datat XVI î.e.n Muz.N.I.Buc.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tezaurul Şimig Jud. Sibiu epoca bronzului datat XV î.e.n. Muz. Cluj-Napoca / Muz.N.Buc / Muz.I. Budapesta.

Descoperire 1912

Tezaurul Moigrad Jud.Sălaj se compune din 4 piese Au. din care una este cel mai mare obiect neolitic din Au.descoperit pe teritoriul Ro.(piesa este realizată prin ciocănire din Au. masiv.) datat Mil. IV î.e.n. Muz.N.I.Buc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tezaurul Sărăsău Jud. Satu-Mare datat X-VII î.e.n piesele sunt în mai multe muzee europene.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Descoperire 1900

Tezaurul Sărmăşag Jud. Sălaj diademe Au. datat XVI î.e.n Muz. I. Cluj-Napoca.

Descoperire 2000-2001

Tezaur Sarmisegetusa Regia Jud. Hunedoara 15 buc. brăţări Au. datat I î.e.n. Muz.N.I.Bucureşti.

Descoperire 1927

Tezaurul Săcuieni Jud. Bihor 8buc. falere Au. datat X î.e.n. Muz.N.I.Buc.

Descoperire 1909

Tezaurul Grăniceni Jud. Arad 3 falere Au. datat VIII î.e.n.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Descoperire 1938

Tezaurul Pecica-Rovine Jud. Arad. 48 conuri Au. datat VIII î.e.n. Muz.N.I.Bucureşti.

Descopriri 1992- 2001

Tezaure Kosoni Au. bătute de către suveran dac. datat I î.e.n. Muzee,Colecţii particulare,Bănci.






LA MULŢI ANI !...

Tezaurele ca tezaure...dar oamenii...ca mod de viata si multe aspecte. Ei sint istoria vie, oriunde in lume.

Cei ce le interzic altora accesul la anumite aspecte ale vietii.....sint satui de acel aspect.

De la: mytcor, la data 2009-12-21 13:51:23 ...DEDIC ACEASTĂ SUMARĂ TRECERE-N REVISTĂ, TUTUROR CELOR CE-AU POSTAT PE ACEST TOPIC.

SĂRBĂTORI FERICITE !....


Descoperire 1976.

Tezaur Hinova: obiecte podoabă din Au. 5Kg. datat. sec. VIII. î.e.n. Muz.N. I. Buc.

Descoperire 1845.

Tezaur Biia Jud.Alba : recipient ritualic şi brăţară Au. datat. sec.VII î.e.n. o piesă la Muz.Viena, cealaltă Muz.N.I.Buc.

Descoperire sec. XIX.

Tezaurul Fitireaz. Jud.Arad. 16 buc.brătări Au. datat. sec.VII î.e.n.

Descoperire 1986

Tezaurul tomitan: 60 ob. podobă Au. datat. sec. II î.e.n. Muz.I. Constanţa.

Descoperire 1951

Tezaurul Galeşu Jud. Constanţa 2 manşoane tronconice Au. datat 500 î.e.n. Muz.N.I.Bucureşti.

Descoperire 1984

Tezaur getic Buneşti Jud.Vaslui (cetate geto-dacă) diademă princiară Au. datat IV î.e.n. Muz.N.I.Buc.

Descoperire 1982

Tezaurul de la Brad Jud. Bacău 2 discuri Au. datat. 7000 ani (cultura cucuteni) Muz. O.Roman.

Descoperire 1959.

Tezaur Bădiceni Jud. Iaşi obiecte artă traco-getică datat. IV î.e.n. Muz.N.I.Buc.

Descoperire 1960

Tezaurul Stânceşti Jud.Botoşani. obiecte Au. datat V î.e.n. Muz.N.I. Buc.

Descoperire 1966

Tezaurul Rădeni Jud. Neamţ. 3 ceşti Au.(unicat) datat V î.e.n. Muz. Neamţ

Descoperire 1840

Tezaurul Ţufalău Jud. Covasna 3Kg Au. 300 ob.podoabă (depus într-un vas ceramic) printre obiecte, un topor din Au. datat VIII î.e.n. Muz.I. Viena.
Tezaurul Pipea Jud.Mureş Au. datat V î.e.n. Muz.N. Budapesta.
Tezaurul Vlad Jud. Braşov Au. Muz. I. Viena + 2 brăţări Au. dtate aceeaşi perioadă Muz.N. Budapesta

Descoperire 1928

Coiful getic din aur Coţofeneşti Jud. Prahova Au. datat IV î.e.n. Muz.N.I. Buc.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pandativ-Gumelniţa Jud.Călăraşi datat Mil. III î.e.n. Muz. N.I. Buc.

Descoperire 1954

Tezaurul Perşinari Jud.Dâmboviţa 11 pumnale şi fragment spadă datat XVI î.e.n Muz.N.I.Buc.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tezaurul Şimig Jud. Sibiu epoca bronzului datat XV î.e.n. Muz. Cluj-Napoca / Muz.N.Buc / Muz.I. Budapesta.

Descoperire 1912

Tezaurul Moigrad Jud.Sălaj se compune din 4 piese Au. din care una este cel mai mare obiect neolitic din Au.descoperit pe teritoriul Ro.(piesa este realizată prin ciocănire din Au. masiv.) datat Mil. IV î.e.n. Muz.N.I.Buc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tezaurul Sărăsău Jud. Satu-Mare datat X-VII î.e.n piesele sunt în mai multe muzee europene.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Descoperire 1900

Tezaurul Sărmăşag Jud. Sălaj diademe Au. datat XVI î.e.n Muz. I. Cluj-Napoca.

Descoperire 2000-2001

Tezaur Sarmisegetusa Regia Jud. Hunedoara 15 buc. brăţări Au. datat I î.e.n. Muz.N.I.Bucureşti.

Descoperire 1927

Tezaurul Săcuieni Jud. Bihor 8buc. falere Au. datat X î.e.n. Muz.N.I.Buc.

Descoperire 1909

Tezaurul Grăniceni Jud. Arad 3 falere Au. datat VIII î.e.n.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Descoperire 1938

Tezaurul Pecica-Rovine Jud. Arad. 48 conuri Au. datat VIII î.e.n. Muz.N.I.Bucureşti.

Descopriri 1992- 2001

Tezaure Kosoni Au. bătute de către suveran dac. datat I î.e.n. Muzee,Colecţii particulare,Bănci.






LA MULŢI ANI !...

La început a fost cuvântul dac
Ce-a pus pecetea peste tara-n care
Cei ce se nasteau, ca frunza pe copac,
Se-ntelegeau în limba vorbitoare,

Când Herodot a scris cine sunt getii,
Dacii traiau de mult pe-acest pamânt,
Erau cei mai viteji dintre toti tracii,
Vorbeau o limba clara, în cuvânt.

De mii si mii de ani, nimeni nu stie
De când sunt dacii în câmpii si munti,
Cuvintele în care si-acum se scrie
Erau si-atunci vorbite de parinti.

Când Herodot a scris cine sunt getii,
Dacii traiau de mult pe-acest pamânt,
Erau cei mai viteji dintre toti tracii,
Vorbeau o limba clara, în cuvânt.

A da numai dreptate celor care
Au spus ca dacii au murit de mult,
E o minciuna-n care au crezut
Doar cei ce-au vrut ca dacii sa dispara-n vânt.

Când Herodot a scris cine sunt getii,
Dacii traiau de mult pe-acest pamânt,
Erau cei mai viteji dintre toti tracii,
Vorbeau o limba clara, în cuvânt.

Mai puri decât romanii, roxalanii,
Mai întelepti decât elinii la un loc,
Demni ca în Kosovo, dardanii
Stam si azi pe-acest pamânt noi, dacii



LA MULŢI ANI !...